Creative/Art Direction & Styling by Natalie Schmidt; Photographed & Written by Anita Hodges

“Back here is where you can get into character,” I heard Ashley Hayward explain to a dancer as I exited the restroom at the Highland Park Bowl, located on the east side of Los Angeles. Hayward was already dressed in character ahead of that night’s performance at her monthly residency called Night Scene, a “Punk Burlesk” [read: burlesque] show that she curates performing alongside live punk band, The Tricky Dix.

And what a striking character she already embodied-- her face adorned with a hundred crystals, blond hair tucked under a chauffeur cap, black wide leg trousers she paired with toplessness, her suspenders strategically obscuring her breasts, along with the threat of a riding whip at her side.  I silently high-fived myself for wearing a lilac colored wig for that night’s event-- I too was in character.

My friends and I grabbed thoughtfully-made cocktails at the bar and settled into the audience in Mr. T’s Room at the Bowl. Not only were these cocktails affordable AF ($12 for a beverage that includes cinnamon tincture is an absolute steal in Los Angeles), but they were made with quality liquors and went beyond your average well drink. Get it when you go-- it’s called The Dude Abides. My drink in hand, the Night Scene was set.

The band played a couple songs, I noticed heads bobbing. And suddenly there was an arresting hush, an almost reverent energy that fell over the crowd. Hayward stood in the doorway, shoulders back and chin up, awaiting her cue. The crowd of mostly men stayed silent as she wound her way up and down the space, undulating her torso and hitting her marks while throwing a penetratively intimidating glare their way. The ladies in the crowd were, as they say, whooping it up. We were enjoying her performance, and our participation sought to encourage Hayward.

Her attire eventually peeled off in a succession of teasing the audience, with the ultimate punk soundtrack behind her. By the time Hayward was down to her holographic pasties, the energy in Mr. T’s Room felt electrictrified. To send us teetering over the edge, Hayward ended her performance by donning a Donald Trump mask and ripping up a photo of him. The obviously left-leaning crowd went apeshit as she made her sultry exit.

It’s plain to see that while Hayward’s dancing was choreographed, it still felt improvised. That’s a difficult line to walk artistically, and after watching many shows I can confirm that this balance is Hayward’s strength as a performer. The amount of care and attention to detail that she puts into music selection, props and custom costumes elevates her art form, no matter the venue or audience. This girl is an effing pro, and it’s seeping out of her every crystallized pore.

AS IS Editorial sat down with Hayward to discuss a myriad of topics relating to fashion and feminism. Hayward came prepared to play during our interview, and she did not disappoint with her candor. After learning that she recently joined the roster of dancers at Hollywood bikini bar Jumbo’s Clown Room, we especially wanted to explore what exactly it must be like to be a woman in her unique position who uses her artful body movement to challenge society’s notions of sexuality, politics, and feminism. She also addressed her experiences with bullying, harassment, artistic integrity, and her opinion about being sex work adjacent.

AS IS EDITORIAL: So tell us about yourself, where do you come from and how did that influence you growing up?

Ashley Hayward: I’m from Redmond, Oregon which is a small town. Being from a small town [we] kinda stuck to our own devices...so I had a lot of time where I was like, "Oh I hate it here. And I hate these people.” Hate’s a very strong word, I shouldn’t say I hate the people, but I just knew I didn't belong there and I knew that there was so much more out there, and so I spent a lot of time being with myself, and figuring out whatever that was. I knew that I was different in the sense that no one else really had those aspirations and no one seemed to have even thought of what lay outside of Redmond.

Can you give us an example of something that happened growing up where you were distinctly thinking, “This is not a choice that I'll be making growing up,” something that influenced why you feel like you're different than that average girl from Redmond?

I think it really started happening when I started getting harassed, when I started being called a slut-- even before I ever had sex, I don't even think I had given a blow job.

How old were you?

Twelve.

Wow!

This is seventh grade. There's this guy named Dan and he was my first big crush and he was dating this girl named Scarlett. She was a year older than us. Dan was in my grade, and he broke up with Scarlett to date me.

Were you friends with Scarlett?

No we weren’t really friends.

Then he broke up with her. And ever since that happened she was like, “Slut, slut, slut, slut!” and turned the whole entire school against me.

Oh my god!

Being older [now] I guess I think to myself, “Okay, I get why she reacted immaturely.” But at that time, it was devastating. But I think, [due to the situation] I had real empathy for my mom because her daughter was being called a slut, and she had no idea if I really was or not, she just had to believe me. And I remember just being like “Fuck, Mom, please believe me.” Because she didn’t actually know what I was doing at school.

So this got to the parents at school?

Yeah. And then it would be so bad...I remember this one time [about this shirt I had], it had some rock design on it. I'm sure it was a knock-off Harley Davidson shirt. It had ties laced on the side, and you could see my bra on the sides-- it was just like: THE END. For everyone it was like, “I can't believe you're wearing that. What the fuck are you doing?” There were a lot of things that I wore that people harassed me for, but then would go on to wear themselves.

So, remember those Gaucho pants?

 Yeah.

Oh my god, I got made fun of so hardcore for those. And then three months later, everyone was wearing them.

So in a way, you’ve always been a trendsetter.

Yeah, well it was a small town.

You were so ahead of your time for where you were.

I don’t know, where did I even get that information? I don’t know. I remember discovering Urban Outfitters for the first time and being like, “What the fuuuuuuccck is this??”

How did you discover Urban Outfitters?

The first time ever was in San Diego, I had a lot of family there at that time who we would visit from Oregon. And one time we went to San Diego, I remember I saying, "I just want to go to Urban Outfitters please, please, please!” I found out where it was and so we went. I just remember my mom sitting in a chair, with her fucking arms crossed and she’s just like, [imitating her mother’s disdain] “This is an over-priced thrift store.”

 Hahahahaha.

And I now believe her! And at the time no one [was wearing Urban Outfitters]. I remember this time when I wore an outfit that was all from Urban Outfitters. I think it had bat sleeves, it was gray and teal diagonally striped, I wore my hair in a pompadour style, these white hoop earrings, these jeans with studs on them and Adidas tennis shoes. I remember people circling me and checking my tags, to see where my clothes were from.

It was so funny, I remember my dad asking, “Oh is it eighties day at school?” I was like, “No…” and he said, “Why are you dressing like that then?” to which I replied, "I just feel like dressing this way.” So that was the start of, I think, my fashion sense and my identity in wearing whatever I want to express myself, whatever that means that day because I like to dress in different styles depending how I feel. It’s always pretty different.

That was also the start of people really asking me where I am getting this fashion sense. Urban Outfitters. I guess I owe it all to Urban Outfitters.

Your discovery of Urban Outfitters as a child was little like, “Oh wait, there IS a world out there where people dress different or unique, and this is normal.”

And I remember so many items from Urban Outfitters that I used to have, and now when I remember them I think, "Why don't I still have that??” I had this one shirt, it had a deep V neckline and it was flannel puff sleeved. They were orange flannel.

And that KILLED in Oregon.

Speaking of clothing, I don't know how I feel about this, but it's been brought to my attention regarding the shirts that women and little girls wear, you know the ones that say “Hey Now” or “Super Babe” or whatever it is.

Oh yeah, the subliminal suggestive messages of  “Holler at Me” and “Cat Call Me.”

Yeah, I never really thought of that, and I remember when I nannied, the little girl I watched had this shirt that said "Hey Now” and I was like, “Ugh!” And I know her mom likely didn't even think of it, 'cause I know her mom's like a [with reverence] heavenly woman, whom I very much admire, but I always hated it when the girl wore that shirt, and I never thought of it before it was brought to my attention.

I used to have a shirt that said “Not Everything is Flat in Kansas” and I used to looooove wearing that.

And circling back to the question, once people started calling me a slut it wasn't that I started believing it, it’s that I started playing into it: “So you wanna see slut? I’ll show you slut. I’ll dress as slutty as possible.” That’s when I learned about controversy and I realized how much power it has and how much I loved it.

What do you love about controversy?

I think expression of self is controversial in general. I'm not expressing being a slut because, first of all: Fuck You, who cares? And second, there’s no way a seventh grader is a slut, so let’s be real. A virgin, Christian slut doesn’t make any sense.

Yeah! And, also what you're saying without saying it, is that your clothing does not define your behavior.

Exactly.

And in no way does it give permission, especially in an escalated situation.

When I went home this last visit of mine, my grandmother literally looked at me and was like, “Well, maybe if girls didn’t dress so slutty, they wouldn’t get raped.”
 Unbelievable! Oh no she didn’t!

Unpack that for us: I was going to ask you, once your mom found out that people were bullying you by calling you a slut and things like that nature, you were saying earlier that you have this new dynamic with your mom where she doesn't know if you are or you aren't. How did that relationship change over time to what it is now?

I will say one thing, as I've gotten older I’m realizing how much my mom sacrificed for me. I get emotional over it sometimes, 'cause I feel as though I'm a horrible daughter, perhaps that I'm just a horrible family member in general because I can be selfish in a lot of ways. I moved away from the family, I pursued my dreams, it was all about me. I was raised as an only child-- as far as my brother, I didn’t know where he was at.

It's been about me this whole time. When I get into relationships and friendships, I do start to see how it becomes the fucking Ashley Show. You know that’s why I do what I do, I’m a performer, and that makes sense.

Growing up, my mom had me on an online casting website. My parents were supportive about moving me out LA to pursue my dreams even when I was a freshman in high school. I always thought, "Oh my parents didn’t support me,” but that's a fucking lie.

There was this one letter that affected my mom, and it was so devastating to her. It began: “In regards to your daughter, Ashley,” and of course, my mom thought it was a talent agent responding and instead it read, “Your daughter is the village bicycle of Redmond. She's never gonna go anywhere, she's talentless, she's gonna end up [with emphasis] a stripper!” My mom read it first. I remember that moment of like...you could tell, she didn't believe anything she was reading.

Yeah, but what a gut punch.

I have no idea to this day who wrote that letter. So from that point on, we started getting other people involved.

That’s like criminal level bullying.

It became on a school level: the principal would check in on me, the security, we would have police officers call during the week to make sure I was okay. There were people who were aware that what was happening was a type of escalated bullying, that it was harmful and could get dangerous.

We're talking about early middle school here for you at 12 years old, and your day-to-day inside of school. Were you sitting with people at lunch?

No I ate in the bathroom.

I had two or three girlfriends that didn't really stick up for me all the time, I would stick up for them. 'Cause then, of course, if you're gonna harass me you're gonna harass my friends. So, I started sticking up for other people. I remember one time my friend asked me, “Will you please stick up for me against this guy today?” and I was like, “Yeah, totally.”

That's why in high school I switched and became a cunt. I was so rude, I thought I was better than everyone. I wanted the fuck out of there. I studied my ass off so my senior year I only had one class each term. I thought, “Fuck this place, I'm out of here.” Literally, I left a shit in the bathroom on my last day and walked out with an attitude of, “Fuck. You.”

It's funny 'cause I didn't drink in high school, I didn't do drugs. I had one boyfriend who wasn't even from [Redmond]...he was so different. His name was Blake, but we used to call him “hot rockstar boy” when he first got there. Now he just looks like every guy I date.

Is this the origin story of your inevitable type?

[Laughing] My friend was saying to me the other day, “Every time I see a guy with long hair and a mustache, I just think he's dating you.”

They think it’s a next future ex-Mr. Hayward.

[Laughing] Yeah!

So Blake was from Clackamas, which is a suburb of Portland, so he was a city boy, he came in, didn't fit in at all, everyone made fun of him as much as they made fun of me. We were that couple that made people ask, “Who the fuck are these kids?” And I loved it, I loved every minute of it. We thought we were Tommy Lee and Pamela Anderson in a way. We would, you know, dress the parts, we wore each other's clothes. I loved it. It was so fun.

He would wear your clothes too? What's a specific memory you have of that, of something he wore of yours?

[Thinking aloud] What was it? He still has my fucking Spice Girls shirt from the first concert that I ever went to!

Dammit!

He stole it! I would love to wear that right now. I’m so upset!

Hopefully he still has it! What do you think he’s doing now?

I think he’s been in jail a few times? Definitely heard about a mugshot.

So, he still has the shirt then…

[Kidding] He got arrested wearing the Spice Girls t-shirt.

Blake and I had each others’ backs, we really did. If I hadn’t found Blake, I don’t know how different my high school experience would have been. I had my girlfriends but I think my girlfriends didn't even understand me. I think they thought, “Ashley’s fun and eclectic, and we like dancing in her studio.” We grew up together, but it felt as though we had different plans. I was going this way, they were going that way.

My mom got harassed tremendously for allowing me to move to LA. And she was harassed as a parent for not sending me to college. [The community criticized us] when I didn't go to people's weddings, when I moved to LA, it was talked about on Facebook. It's a very toxic town. That's why I can't go back and my parents don't understand that and I say, "You don't understand the things that I have to go through when I come back here.”

I only hang out with [like minded] people now. We share the same passion, and I feel that we are pretty open-minded, warm, welcoming and non-judgemental. It took me a long time to get out of that closed minded culture of Redmond, to find these friendships in LA, and now that I have that, why would I go back? If you’re not down for what I do, that’s cool, just keep it to yourself. We don’t have to be friends.

Yeah, exactly, you’re living in the expression of your choices, which is what we’re all trying to do, trying to move as closely as possible towards authenticity.

That’s exactly what I’m trying to do.

We are starting to get the picture of how your experiences demonstrate all of the different ways society places expectations onto a young woman, and also how you’re actively making choices to assert who you are in the face of those expectations. That is a huge part of feminism that intersects your life.

While you are a white woman in America, you're lucky to enjoy privilege, but your experiences show that you will still never be immune to the prejudices,  against a woman, period.

It's just kind of like you’re damned if you do, damned if you don’t. You know, even as I took this job at Jumbo’s Clown Room, I got a lot of comments saying, “Wow, and you’re smart?” The people saying these comments are older men, that totally different generation. It's not other women saying that.

I almost feel like it's been more challenging because I'm not dumb and I look a certain way.

[For example] Jack the Stripper, she's one of those strippers coming out publically who says, "We are determined, smart and empowered. You're not allowed to treat us poorly just because of what we have chosen to do for a living.” I guess stripping hasn’t always been a choice for everyone; people have always looked at it as: "Oh she must have to strip for this or that reason.” I think now there's a rise of women stripping to demonstrate choice, which is what makes it empowering.

Totally. And how exactly is your relationship with that idea of choice?

I mean truthfully, I'm still battling with it, I don't know what [my relationship to performing at a bikini bar] is, I haven't decided yet. Because I think there's a huge part of me that doesn't really see what I do as anything [personal]. I kinda just look at it as, "Oh it’s performance, it's all a character, it's all cabaret. So, it's not personal.”

Well, being a woman is personal. And a part of being a woman is deciding the extent to which you as an individual will participate and engage with the performative aspects of femininity.

I think one thing is, I didn't grow up conscious that women didn't have as many rights. I didn't know that. I heard about it, but actual fighting for feminism felt strange because I grew up in a house which supported gender equality, my dad was that way. There was no “you’re a woman, it’s gonna be a little harder for you.” It was like, “No, you can do the same thing [as boys].” I do remember one comment my dad said to me, though, it was: “What scares me the most about you is that you're exactly like me, but you're a woman.”

Oh, that's a big thing to say.

And I knew he meant being fearless and going after what I want, and being stubborn.

He’s saying more people are going to try to stop you just because you're a woman.

Yeah, and I've never really started thinking about it until recently because it's brought to all of our attentions right now.

Before, I was just like, "Oh there's no difference [between the sexes] and everything's the same.” And I guess I looked at it more as: men and women should be better and worse at certain things. With two separate sexes, it doesn't mean one is better than the other. So, we're just equal, but then I'm realizing that now, there is a biological advantage and stuff, like a man is going to be stronger [than I] physically, he just is...and I'm okay with that, but [biologically], I am gonna be a better multi-tasker, or be able to fucking birth a child.

Your threshold for pain is a lot stronger as a woman. And you’re right about being a better multi-tasker.

Hayward recounts how that very morning she woke up with a fling in her bed, and even though it was early she managed to get in 3 hours of running errands and working out before he even woke up. As the fling awoke, she was cooking him eggs. She says it made her feel like the only adult in the room, although the comparison of her multitasking ability to her fling’s inactivity ultimately felt validating to her own growth.

You have to have that external comparison in order to validate yourself. A lot of times that gumption gets labeled as mothering. You got up early, you were so efficient with your time, you’re wearing all the hats. “I take care of me. I also take care of you. You are in my house right now,” and you still feel obliged to host and it just happens that way.

I feel like I’m one of the least maternal people-- only child, pretty selfish. So when I do shit like that...where does it even come from??

Somewhere someone said, “We’ve fucked. You get eggs.” It's some kind of instinct now. And you don't have to have children to be a mother as a female. And I'm saying that in an empowering way-- because we're nurturing, it is a strength that we have.

[The person in my life] who made me [realize this concept] was my voice teacher growing up. She was a really empowered woman, she was so fucking rad, she was a dancer on Broadway for like a million years and she really helped me out a lot, but I remember grasping at that concept of being a woman and not having to be a mom, but being a mother to many like she was with her students. That's when I realized, "Oh yeah, I wanna be a mother to many.” I don't want kids of my own, but that doesn't mean I don't wanna share my life in the same way I would if I had my own children.

It’s interesting that you have such a strong conviction about being a mother to many, which is a sentiment filled with generosity of spirit. When you call yourself selfish is that from your analogy of yourself looking at your life and your choices or is that someone telling you externally that you're selfish?

I think it's me. I think people have said, “You’re selfish,” but we've all said that to someone, right? What's interesting is that I made a joke this year, around New Year's, "Oh this is gonna be the year I'm gonna be a shitty person, this is gonna be the year I'm gonna just fucking only care about myself, I'm gonna just do my own thing and be a shitty person.” It seems to be working for everyone else. And it's actually the year I lost the most friends.

I needed to be selfish after this fucking long-ass relationship I was in, which was a very unselfish relationship, it was selfless, and I gave him so much energy that it stalled my career, and I have to be selfish this year.

And it was a smart choice because business is booming, right? You're doing great, you have so many new things coming up and you’re saying yes to everything. It's a good thing to be selfish. You are an ambitious woman, you're not being selfish, you're just driven.

During our interview, Hayward starts applying her makeup for her upcoming shift at Jumbo’s Clown Room. In demonstrating her social media prowess, she continues our interview while livestreaming her makeup process. She addresses her followers directly to promote her gigs, and tonight is no different.

So I am getting ready for work, right now and everyone should come say hi to me from four to nine today, and [looks intensely into the camera] Bring. Fucking. Dollar Bills. And throw them at me.

And speaking of business booming because you’ve prioritized yourself, you’ve just joined the dancers at Jumbo’s Clown Room. What’s it like being a newbie at a bikini bar?

I don't think I'll ever be able to really figure it out. Honestly, I'm working at Jumbo’s because it's like-- I don't wanna call it performance because some girls get mad at other girls for calling it a performance. It's for more time to practice and you know what I mean, it's more time to play and why not get paid for it. And, yeah, I always loved that bar. I think it's perfect, I actually think it's a perfect bar. There is no disco ball though...that actually makes it a un-perfect bar...

You’re performing on a stage for people, which we were saying earlier is something as a woman you’re doing every day anyway, performing the role of femininity to the degree of one’s own choice. Where does the stigma of not wanting to call it a performance come from?

The weird thing that happens when you start performing all the time is mentally keeping up with the idea that it's a performance, which is actually quite a lot to take on, but I think when you are working at a place like Jumbo’s, you're up on stage ten times during your shift. That's so frequent that you might as well just have a full hour show.

When I used to perform a few times a month, it was a big deal. I have been that way from a young age-- 'cause as a kid I only performed once a year for the spring recital, and the whole day became my day. I would start doing my makeup five hours before the show.

And the more you do it, the more casual it gets, the less pressure there is and the less you obsess over getting to perform.  I used to not talk to people before I performed, nobody could talk to me and it was considered my time to prepare. And now that I do it so often, I'm like, “Yeah, you wanna go get drinks before my show?” It kind of loses that novelty. I think it almost takes the pressure off.

Although, you should perform the same for three people as you would for 300 thousand-- you should always be treating your performance with that much care. And I think that's what makes the difference between artists like Prince, versus so-and-so at the dive bar.

It’s professionalism.

It's difficult because there are times to slack and I think it is important because you do need to know where to put your energy, otherwise you're gonna burn out.

For example, this is my lazy makeup, because no, I'm not gonna be under a fucking bunch of lights, it's not a certain gig that I'm at every Friday, I know I don't have to do a full glitter eye today. I’m saving my energy.

I can keep it somewhat casual but I think it's important not to lose [too much glamour], because hair and makeup is my armor, it is what puts me in character. Not that I wouldn’t perform as well, but the hair and makeup is included in the costume, that's what burlesque is. It’s satire, it’s exaggeration. I look at this sequinned clown shirt [that Hayward is currently wearing]. It's so ridiculous. But when you put it on...you automatically start feeling that [she starts shimmying her shoulders] and we act this way...yeah, that's what drag is.

Would you say the dress and the dance go 50/50 in the message that you're trying to convey?

Yes, I have always dressed more masculine onstage [to subvert] my femininity and what a woman should look like.

When I’m on stage, I fucking wear a jacket that has shoulder pads and a G string. Yeah, yeah, it's feminine, but it's not exactly what we grew up to think is sexy.

Or rather, what the male gaze taught us was considered sexy. Your look is appealing to women as much as it appeals to men, quite frankly. And that's why we are drawn to it.

I've always dressed like an asshole and I've always dressed like an asshole because I didn't wanna be a typical girl.

You dress cool, that doesn’t make you an asshole.

There's certain dresses or certain things I literally won’t wear 'cause I'll think, "Oh my God, it looks like every other girl.” It feels weird. I couldn’t wear jeans for a long time, I felt boring and not cool, and I had this weird obscene thing with it, and now jeans are really in and I love denim now, I appreciate it more.

Who or what inspires you to create? Who do you follow on social media that influences you and why?

[People on Instagram that influence me in fashion include:
@braskosongs- I don’t know if I want to sleep with him or be him.
@nadialeelee- She’s unusual and i like it! 
@heyparkerday- Another photographer whose work is unusual. I love her use of color and satire. 
@violetchachki- I mean…this one is obvious. I did a show once with Violet and I was very excited. Fashion icon for sure and an excellent performer.
@officiallymosh- I’ve worked with Mosh a few times and I’ve been a big fan of hers for years now. The woman knows how to create spectacular lines.]

I always find this question hard to answer because so much inspires me. Los Angeles in general inspires me, especially the underground music/club/art scene. I’m inspired by past decades, particularly the 1960s-80s. My friends, with whom I’m lucky enough to also create and work inspire me everyday. We all encourage each other to push our own boundaries. Music will always be my biggest motivator and inspiration though, and nothing beats rock n roll fashion.

Tell us about your curated art performance. What inspires you to pursue your style of performance, especially with regard to “Punk Burlesk.” It’s really different and specific to incorporate punk with burlesque.

I appreciate that because when someone asks me to produce a burlesque show the one thing I really don’t want is for it to be like every other class of burlesque. I actually want to get rid of “Burlesk,” from the name of the show. I feel that what we're doing is actually performance art. The difference for most is that we're taking our clothes off.

Music's my biggest inspiration. Now that I have this platform, I can do whatever the fuck I want at Night Scene, and I'm not limited to just music. When I first started we were very classic which menas jazz, and I didn't wanna do classic burlesque to some other kind of music, 'cause it doesn’t make any sense to me. A classic burlesque costume doesn't make sense to me [when dancing to] Led Zepplin or The Ramones. That connection is always inspired by music and sometimes I don't know...I hear the song and some idea comes into my head and that's just what it is. I look at curating each number as if the band came to me and asked me to make a music video.

Like if [English rock band] Fat White Family came to me with “Touch The Leather” and was like, “Make us a video,” I'd think to myself, "Okay I want to be a girl who's a submissive who turns into a dom, and then Donald Trump is somehow involved in drag being dominated.”

Yeah, yeah! And that's encompassing whole entire worlds: politics, socio-economics, even music. Your Trump number makes for a provocative performance.

There is an artist who did a portrait of Trump in drag. I had all these extra rhinestones, and I had that Trump mask. Why not combine these ideas?

How do you synthesize your inspiration into your other performances?

Sometimes I have no idea! Typically I’m inspired by films I watch.

The phone act that I have came out of a film called The Telephone Book, it's amazing. It's a very obscure French film, it's about a call girl who's in love with a call guy. She tries to find him. It's just so obscure. I wanted to make an act inspired by all of that. It's been like three or four years performing it now.

And then my “Strange Movie” number was inspired by this crazy song that I heard while I was having sex with my ex-boyfriend in a hotel room on rose petals. The song was like, [imitating] “Unh, unh, unh" and I thought, "Well this song is so stupid, I kinda wanna dance to it.”

Sometimes things just take time, it's all timing. I have had ideas for years that still haven't been put into production. We're all obligated to just push out content every fucking second. And I am like “Dude, I’m not inspired right now! Let me live, find inspiration so I can come back and give you something that's fucking good.”

Switching gears, seeing that your art explores sexuality and the stories you have shared, you’re very sex positive in your life. What are some of the patterns you’ve noticed about men with whom you’ve been intimate?

Now that I have hooked up with everyone from the age of 22 to 50, [I can tell you that] younger guys wear condoms, older guys will not bring it up, they’ll let it slide. Younger guys right away will say, “You have one? I don't have a condom, I have a condom.” They bring it up, younger guys always bring it up.

That’s great! Does that mean you prefer younger guys now?

[Hesitates] Yeah. No. I don’t prefer any guys. I really don’t. I know [how that sounds]! I can see my friends being like, "What is Ashley doing, she's dating all these younger guys?” And it’s 'cause I don't give a fuck, I'm like, “All the young guys want is sex. They have so much testosterone, that's all they want.”

And sometimes that’s what women want too!

Yeah, like all the time!

Or, more like, on demand would be best.

So what are you working on now? You've got Punk Burlesk at Night Scene? We were talking about that, and that maybe you're gonna drop the “Burlesk” from the title, because it doesn’t exactly translate.

Yeah, you can't just be like, "Oh it's a punk show.” But now that I'm singing during Night Scene it kind of takes on a whole new meaning to it, so it’s kind of cabaret.

Yeah, it's cabaret, now that you're singing right?

We can make it cabaret with a K --like the German. The Cabaret poster for the film-- the German poster is so tight and it's with a “K.”

What do you want to see more of in your line of work in dance in the future?

I want people to stop copying choreography. In burlesque, there's only one really famous dancer and people are just re-doing that act. And also, I don't like when performers dance to each other's music. There's a whole library of music to choose from that's endless, and it’s especially easy now that we have access through services like Spotify. So, dancers should take their time and research music. Don't be scared, you don't have to just put out shit to put out shit. Take time, explore, figure out who you are. It's almost like they're playing the safe route by doing something that's already been done before.

Take a risk and maybe don't be so obsessed with the outcome of it, or whether you're gonna get money from it, or...yeah, I just don't feel like anything's authentic anymore. Everything is kind of like, carbon copies. I wanna see more originality. I wanna see more freedom, artistic expression of your true self.

Would you say that's your hope for humanity at large?

I went to a concert last week, and it was really disappointing.

We get there and it starts out, we're excited and then all of a sudden I realized everything is being mimed. The guitarist is pretending to play guitar, the drummer is hitting drum pads with no sound coming out of them, and then the DJ was turning knobs. They would run around the stage and I thought to myself, “Okay, well who's playing your music right now?” It was all pre-recorded. I was appalled that people are paying for this, including myself.

Oh my God.

I don't think people cared. People did not care.

And the thing is that it didn’t fill the space, only live instruments can fill the space and you can do electronic music live, it doesn't need to be fake. I was so angry because this is artistic expression that's totally getting shut down by a fucking computer and people are okay with it!

Yeah, it’s fraudulent.

It's scary because music’s such a connection between people and if we lose that then what do we have...'cause sometimes, it's the only thing that keeps us connected, at least for me. And if that's gone, I might just be replaced by a hologram, right?

Keeping the authenticity alive and connection in art is so important--

--because that's what art is: connection and making people think, it's making people feel--

--and understand more about themselves.

And so, if you lose that we're fucked. That's why I still do what I do because it's the rawest form of entertainment there is. It’s been around since 1890, and was really big in the Great Depression because it was cheap, and it was really cheap to take your whole entire family to a burlesque show. That's what kept people happy, kept people going.

It was also the first time women realized that we could capitalize on men’s desires and take their money for it.

Do you consider what you do at Jumbo’s sex work adjacent at all? Or now do you perhaps know of people who are engaging in sex work?

I met a girl yesterday [who told] me that she's never had sex for free. I was like, "Wait, what?”

So she lost her virginity while being paid?

I didn't ask that part but I did ask, “Have you been in a relationship?” She told me, "I had engagements, but I got paid each time we met.” I was gonna ask her, "Do you want a relationship? Are you lonely?” That was what I wanted to say.

And I've heard a few girls say that [at Jumbo’s], and I'm like, "I do not wanna be a part of this. Not even if you look at it as a performance and you're having a good time doing it.”

Even yesterday there were these two girls there, and they fucking weren't tipping, and we were all getting pissed. We’re like, “Go to another bar. Why are you here? If you're gonna sit here and watch us, you need to tip.” We're working just for tips. It gets annoying. You can go have a drink anywhere. At least throw a dollar here or there. One of the dancers said something catty, and the girls that weren’t tipping ended up tipping only me in private because they appreciated my demeanor and my performance.

Dancing isn't always about sex, especially when it's burlesque, cabaret or stripping which is highly sexualized on its own.

That’s dance in general because you're moving your body and we’re taught: if you move your body, it sexual. If you see some people hug they hug with their asses out 'cause they're afraid to touch each other, or some people who walk stiff with their hips, it's 'cause they're scared of movement and there's nothing sexual about movement. And you do see that even within the dance world.

[There are different worlds in dance made up of] dance world professionals, the burlesque world, and then strippers. Professional dancers think we’re sluts for doing burlesque, because we go down to pasties-- but then they're grinding on each other and humping the stage and shit, but because they're behind Beyonce it’s considered ok.

But then, because we're choosing to do our own thing, we do our own choreography, and have no rules-- then we’re sluts? But I've seen so many dancers dance way more slutty than strippers.

There’s hypocrisy happening.

Strippers hate burlesque dancers. So really that's interesting. We dance differently, we totally dance differently than burlesque dancers, who dance differently than strippers and it's weird. But the best way I heard it described is that strippers dance with their pussies out. And burlesque dancers are covered.

The stylized body movements are different.

I'm showing people that there's still room to appreciate burlesque in a bikini bar environment.

I think you're doing it with dignity; you're not losing your sense of art. On any given day of the week, you are performing for multiple types of audience attention. That is ultimately why your feminist story lives at one of the most relevant crossroads of them all.

Follow @missashleyhayward on Instagram for show information and updates.
Night Scene takes place on Thursdays monthly starting January 2019 in Mr. T’s Room at Highland Park Bowl, located at 5921 N Figueroa Street, Los Angeles, CA 90042. Visit www.missashleyhayward.com for performance dates.
Jumbo’s Clown Room is located at 5153 Hollywood Boulevard, Los Angeles, CA 90027.
Special thanks to Highland Park Bowl, Malibu Creek State Park, and Lauren Anderson.